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WAMMA

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9:36 am
November 16, 2010


DeViLBoY

Member

posts 105

1

What would you guys think about a WAMMA type org that is like an umbrella that promoters promote their fights under and have their own belts. Like a Canadian alliance of promoters. The belts would be more prestigious and help all the promotions under neath it. It'd be kinda like how boxing has WBC/WBA titles instead of just a promoters set of titles. Fighting for the CAMMA title would mean a lot more than fighting for a MFC/AFC/CFC/-1 title.

Obvious it has its benefits and flaws… kinda wanna know how fighters/promoters would feel about such a system…. I think in the future the only way anybody will be able to compete with the ufc would be to do this kinda alliance.

9:44 am
November 16, 2010


Robin Black

Member

posts 235

2

Interesting idea but none of these promoters would ever be interested. Too many of them have different personalities, too many of them are hyper-competitive, too many of them only see their own shows and ignore the others. Some of them downright hate some of the others.

 

I think we might see a champ from 1 fight a champ from another at some times. You might get 2 promoters to work together on a short-term basis. More than that would be more painful than playing with a porcupine in heat.

10:52 am
November 16, 2010


Jamie Locke

Member

posts 222

3

I think this could work in Eastern Canada. With all the shows happeninng in Quebec it would make alot of sense to do something like this. I also never see these promoters battling it out or talking smack about each other on FB or Twitter. Not the case in the West. There are two shows in the West that each think they are the best in the country, and won't ever be able to work together.

 

I have said before, it would be my dream to see a Canadian promotion go national. If CFC was to bring in guys from the top ten lists, and have them fight each other it would be gold.

10:52 am
November 16, 2010


Marc-Andre Drolet

Admin

posts 216

4

I love the idea, but good luck finding 2 more promoters who would be interested.

For example, Top MMA News got banned from MFC because we posted a prediction article for the upcoming MFC and TFC shows. 

 

They were SO insulted we'd put them in the same article as another promotion.  Nevermind working with others.

 

ALthough it was wierd that Sportsnet was able to do a similar story and weren't banned.  (Even though they don't go to MFC's)

11:31 am
November 16, 2010


DeViLBoY

Member

posts 105

5

If promoters were competitive then they'd be more likely to enter into a alliance to prove their fighters r the best… doesnt matter though… if a couple promoters didn't wanna enter it then they'd fade out anyway… as long as you got a handful of promoters together than eventually the rest would follow.

11:56 am
November 16, 2010


Jamie Locke

Member

posts 222

6

A big problem with Canadian promotions is that they have no solid rosters.

 

I know MFC signs guys on exclusive contracts, and AFC is getting on the bus with this as well.

 

I don't know any other promotions in Canada that have solid rosters with exceptions of the champions clause for title holders.

 

I think if the many promotions we have had set solid rosters, competition between them would be more fun, and alliances with inter-competition would be possible.

 

Right now, a fighter in Canada can fight for anyone, anywhere, which is great for them, but confusing when thinking in these broader term, and trying to decipher who is better. The only way we judge right now is by who has the better match-ups, who hires the best talent and who puts on the best production(cash into shows).

 

Maybe we should do a list of which promotions are best, and why… like a top ten break down of promotions…. I would never suggest that TMN do this, as it would case mad drama with the scene, but us readers could ptu something together.. Not me of course, as I have to suck up to all promoters and tell them they are the best in order to get my roster on cards..lol…example-MAD, CFC is the best thing going, bring in some BC talent! lol

12:10 pm
November 16, 2010


Marc-Andre Drolet

Admin

posts 216

7

haha, but you guys have to also remember each promotion is it's own business, and most likely not interested in aligning with anybody who could be a competitor.  Or potentially move into their city.

12:18 pm
November 16, 2010


Keith Grienke

Admin

posts 714

8

Post edited 12:22 pm – November 16, 2010 by Keith Grienke


Jamie Locke said:

Maybe we should do a list of which promotions are best, and why… like a top ten break down of promotions….


 
Very, very hard to do:

 

1. too many impartial people – too many associated with shows.

2. too few are qualified to rank promotions.  No one has seen every show, so how can you rank?  I don't even consider myself qualified to rank them. 

3. how do you rank the best promotion?  What criteria do you use? Most talent card?  Highest profit? Largest crowd?  Most cities visited?  Best matchups?  Best fights? Biggest brand?  Most TV viewers? Most PPV buys?  Best treatment of fighters?  Best Canadian roster? Best international roster? 

eg. W1 had Brett Rogers and Ninja Rua on their card.  Arguably the most talent, but how much money did they make? 

eg. AFC 4 and CFC 5 had good matchups top to bottom, but is that better than having a great main event matchup like TFC's Desilets vs Valimaki or Aggression's Hague vs Wiuff?

12:42 pm
November 16, 2010


Jamie Locke

Member

posts 222

9

Yeah, it would be hard to do… I suppose we couldn't do a "ranking list" but maybe a forum topic on which show fans think is the best and why. This way we could get views form many fans, going to many shows and hearing what they have to say about the roster, both Canadian and international talent, production value, ticket sales, etc… Fighters could weigh in on how they were treated, although we'll only hear positive comments from the majority, otherwise we'll get the "Wedderburns" out there who don't care to be invited back to a show.

 

This is a hard process I suppose….

 

I think the only way for us to really get what we want here is for a Canadian show to go national like I said… using the best Canadian talent for main events from the top ten ranking list(those who are not signed to international shows like UFC/ Strikeforce).

 

The question is, when will a promotion be ready to do this, and which one.

 

MFC-  Pav has talked about moving the show around, but hasn't happened.

 

CFC- A solid promotion utilizing Canadian talent, hence why I think these guys should travel and see how they do in other cities using local talent from say, Halifax, Hull(Ottawa, Toronto could get in on this as well as MTL and Q city), Winnipeg, Edmonton or Calgary, and a BC city like Vernon to bring in the West Coast lads….

 

AFC- Looking forward to seeing what happend on that Dragons Den show, if they get the investors, maybe we'll see them expand. Might not see stricly Canadian talent on main events, but possibly on co-mains.

 

W1- Has already moved around, but does not use strictly Canadian talent for main events.

 

Does this idea appeal to anyone? M.A.D?

12:51 pm
November 16, 2010


Marc-Andre Drolet

Admin

posts 216

10

I think CFC is doing a good job using Canadian talent.  UFC 124 in Montreal will have 3 CFC vets.

 

CFC going on the road could be suicide for the promotion as we aren't willing to lose 100k a show like W1 or others can.

1:04 pm
November 16, 2010


Jamie Locke

Member

posts 222

11

Is it neccesary that you would lose that much by travelling? Or is that just the "risk"?

 

I thin the CFC does the best job of using Canadian talent, I would just liketo see more local talent from other places getting the opportunity to showcase against other canadians, and possibly on "The Score" where they can be seen by the world.

 

I am not in the know on what it costs to travel with the show, or all the rsiks involved. I would just like to see it happen one day, as a fan, not a small time manager. This way, as we have discussed before on threads, we could have true "Canadian Titles".

1:18 pm
November 16, 2010


Marc-Andre Drolet

Admin

posts 216

12

It has more to do with the city you are in.

We kick ass in Winnipeg because we know everybody here, and it's our city.

We go to a new city, we have 0 contacts like we have built up over years here.  With Commish, venue, hotel, etc.

 

Taking a show on the road is very complex.  So far who has done well with taking their show on the road?  :)

1:35 pm
November 16, 2010


DeViLBoY

Member

posts 105

13

It'll be a very long time before we see a promotion that expands itself to be all across Canada.. Hell look at the CFL it has been around forever and is still just starting its expansion into the maritimes.

2:21 pm
November 16, 2010


Hawkes

Member

posts 12

14

I think the best way to travel with a show is to start really small. I know its an ammy show but UMC in sask does a good job of picking up their small show and moving it from town to town. if you keep your overhead as low as possible and have kind of a "B- level" show associated with your main show it could work. Almost like what mfc and heat xc have running.

just pack up and bring it from small venue to small venue… have a decent main event but keep the undercard local with small payouts.

2:37 pm
November 16, 2010


Keith Grienke

Admin

posts 714

15

I agree Lindsey. This is how KOTC operates.

2:43 pm
November 16, 2010


Jamie Locke

Member

posts 222

16

I think KOTC has the potential to do a good job. I said potential, not that they DO do a good job.

 

I agree with Hawkes, you have to keep your overhead low, like KOTC, the maintain a very low overhead by keeping their production costs extremely low. Where they fail is the quality of competition, hiring cans and keeping everything on the cheap. That is also why they have driven their name into the ground in the past couple years.

 

If KOTC mainatined the low production, maybe splurged here and there on lights, sound, a nice venue(like Rexall) but employed some top Canadian names on a main event, maybe co-main then kept the remainder of the card local. I think they could turn the name around and become a solid cross Canada show.

 

I think Ken Kuptch may have invested and lossed enough money in the past, that now he simply wants to keep all costs low and try to make a couple bucks. Maybe if some new blood got into KOTC-C, and put some freshness into the oprganization, it has the potential to be one of the greats again.

 

I know we allways bang on KOTC-C for being such a low budget show, but there is good reason for it, they have lost enough money. BUT, KOTC-C continues to have shows, and continues to sell tickets, so they must be doing something right.

11:25 pm
November 16, 2010


Cody Rempel

Moderator

posts 205

17

I think Ken has a few too many balls in the air with KOTC, Wild West and I think he owns a bar or two as well. He used to have Mike Muise helping out with organization and match making and stuff and the shows were pretty good then, unfortuanetly for Ken he lost Hague and Rory MacDonald to the UFC, Nick Denis to Sengoku and Valimaki to TFC. The shows started to suffer and for a while after Ken lost Mike and was doing everything himself.

 

 Now that he has Orest the shows are improving with them bringing in guys like Riggs, Tony Lopez, Quinn Mulhern, Dan Severn, although some of the matchups may not be desirable they are getting better than where they were in between the Hague era and the current day KOTC. 

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