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Going to fight Amateur after Taking Pro Fights

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6:35 pm
October 15, 2010


harry balls

Member

posts 290

1

 Thoughts? Hybrid is yet again having guys who have taken pro fights scrap at their shows. I prodded Vanilla Gorilla about it a tad in H7 thread but i pussied out, as I am trying to keep comments relevant to threads. I never got a super-clear answer about how this is allowed and which fighters are allowed to do it.

   As you can probably guess (because I am an asshole), I do not think this is a super great idea. These guys chose to fight pro. There is a winner and a loser in every fight.

Before I am flamed and assured repeatedly that Fighter A or B is a 'great guy', etc. , I'd like some constructive feedback from some of the more sage members of the community.

  • The standard of excellence on any job
    site is defined by the sloppiest piece of work you will accept.

    – F. Jones

    If Darwin was right Bobby’s back should be turning into a matress soon.- Get Realz, on Bobby K

6:43 pm
October 15, 2010


Don Wilson

Member

posts 26

2

Mr Balls (lol) I've looked into this a llittle, and was told by RACJ employee that in Quebec if you have a losing record they allow you to fight in amateur events. But I do agree with you, once you go pro you shouldn't be allowed to go back but what do I know look at the Olympics.

6:43 pm
October 15, 2010


Jamie Locke

Member

posts 222

3

I didn't think it was allowed to go back to amateur after going pro.

 

I wouldn't see anything wrong with it in a case like Ebjer, but if a guy wins in the pro scene than he shouldn't be allowed to go back. That being said, there has to be a standard rule, and I thought it was that it's not allowed.

 

my 2 pennies….

6:47 pm
October 15, 2010


harry balls

Member

posts 290

4

What is the cutoff, Don? i mean if a guy is 4-5 he has a pro losing record, right? But i am sure he would have an enormous advantage over some kid who had a coupla ammies under his belt….

  • The standard of excellence on any job
    site is defined by the sloppiest piece of work you will accept.

    – F. Jones

    If Darwin was right Bobby’s back should be turning into a matress soon.- Get Realz, on Bobby K

6:53 pm
October 15, 2010


Don Wilson

Member

posts 26

5

I honestly don't know the official cut off but I will make sure to ask at the next event. The way i understood it, was if had 99 wins and 100 loses you could go back to ammy. Now I get it dosen't make any sense but at that point you'd hope the matchmaker doesn't put him in there with a 1-0 kid. I'll post the answer as soon as I find out.

6:57 pm
October 15, 2010


Keith Grienke

Admin

posts 714

6

That is the rule Don. Losing record and willing to fight for free, you can go Amateur. That said, the commission still needs to approve the matchup.

7:15 pm
October 15, 2010


harry balls

Member

posts 290

7

Thanks Don. And thanks to whomever fixed my spelling error in the thread title. I'd be curious to know what factors the commision looked at in those matchups. Still, I no likee.

BTW Ranger has a .500 record and is fighting on this card.

  • The standard of excellence on any job
    site is defined by the sloppiest piece of work you will accept.

    – F. Jones

    If Darwin was right Bobby’s back should be turning into a matress soon.- Get Realz, on Bobby K

7:25 pm
October 15, 2010


Jason Bouwmeester

Admin

posts 179

8

It's a tough call – most sports you go Pro you can't go back, heck my Oilers had a losing record last year and they didn't decide to go down a level haha (bad analogy I'm sure). Not to lessen anyone that has the guts to step into the ring/cage but some of the "pros" I've seen probably should have started out amateur… and probably stayed there.

TKO Photography: sports photography + design + marketing

7:48 pm
October 15, 2010


Mike Davis

Member

posts 212

9

once you go pro you should stay pro, especially after you collect a singal win! I dont care if you are 1-3 you should have to stay pro and gut it out, even if that means takling on other guys with similar records to even it out.  I dont even think it is fair for guys with pro fights to fight some ammy who could be a kid.  I started out 0-2 as a pro and gutted it and did not drop down to ammy at all I gutted it out and did face some guys around my record and level and bounced back to 5-3 and still working way up in order to face tougher competition.  Once you collect a win I think you should have to stay pro if not once you go pro stay there.

8:10 pm
October 15, 2010


Keith Grienke

Admin

posts 714

10

An NHL rookie can play 10 pro games and still be returned to his junior team.

An NHL player can play an entire season and play in the World Junior Championships.

8:18 pm
October 15, 2010


Mike Davis

Member

posts 212

11

Keith Grienke said:

An NHL rookie can play 10 pro games and still be returned to his junior team.

An NHL player can play an entire season and play in the World Junior Championships.


but those are team sports where there is limited room to do so, i can see some arguments where yes it does give a guy a place to go and improve though. hmm tough call I think but if a guy like Shannon Ritch who is 45-72 can go fight some ammy that is complete crap but a guy who is say 2-6 should maybe be allowed.

10:58 pm
October 15, 2010


harry balls

Member

posts 290

12

i don't think that is the greatest analogy , Keith.  Just saying. A one-on-one sport, especially where people are trying to hurt eachother, is much different.

         I agree with Mike 100%, btw/

  • The standard of excellence on any job
    site is defined by the sloppiest piece of work you will accept.

    – F. Jones

    If Darwin was right Bobby’s back should be turning into a matress soon.- Get Realz, on Bobby K

10:57 pm
October 17, 2010


Tyler Davis

Member

posts 160

13

i think if you win one pro fight you should not be allowed to fight ammy, cause once you fight professional….you become a professional. Amatuer Leagues are for the guys who are not sure if they want to delve into the professional leauge. So it is just sandbagging if you are a pro and wanna beat on newbies to stay sharp

11:25 pm
October 17, 2010


Liam McGowan

Member

posts 4

14

Yep, ammy is to see where you are at before you go pro or seeing if you want to do it, nothing else. Also, if you fight pro, and know you could do it, why fight for free?

11:31 pm
October 17, 2010


Marc-Andre Drolet

Admin

posts 216

15

In the perfect world once going pro you shouldn't be fighting amature. But the reality of it is, what's the difference in MMA?

Only now are real amature rules being put in place.

There were days where we fought in what was called Amature, yet pride rules were in effect. Amature only meant there was no commission, and we weren't getting paid.

I think as the sport progresses we'll see less of this.

9:26 am
October 18, 2010


Robin Black

Member

posts 235

16

I would find it starnge for a guy to fight pro mma then go back to amateur. As others on theis thread said, a guy with no wins might be a different story. Went up to pro, didn't belong there yet, so he goes back down. Makes some sense.

 

 Having said that, pro mma fighters go and compete in amateur wrestling and bjj tournaments in between fights, and grappling based fighters find amateur thai fights to build up their stand-up skills. So there is some cross-over.

9:33 am
October 18, 2010


Jamie Locke

Member

posts 222

17

I think right now the main difference is the pay checks for fighters, and of course, ammateur events don't count on a guys record. I have seen amatuer wins and losses on records though, as well as "exhibition" fights being tracked by sites like sherdog.

 

I do believe fighters need a place to test their ability before going pro and fighting experienced people, but the vurrent system has no standards as of yet and I am thinking it's a way for promoters to have shows and save/ make more money by not having to pay their athletes. There are amateur shows all over the place, both in Canada and in the US, many have a huge production value and make quite a bit of cash, and nothing goes back to the fuighters who have to pay for their training/ medicals.

 

I understand in places like Vancouver, where iprofessional fights are not getting through the commissions, amateur is the only way to host fights.

 

I know that standards are an issue in the professional scene, and are only now starting to "unify". I think the same must happen for amateur.

4:28 pm
October 25, 2010


EPerez

Member

posts 48

18

Yeah MAD, when we started there were amateur fights that had Pride style rules, but then there were some which had only open palm strikes on the ground. No two places were ever the same.

 

Here I think if you have a losing record and have 5 fights or less as a pro AND amateur then you can go back and fight amateur. If you have 5 or 6 fights as an amateur, turn pro and fighta few times and get lit up a bit there is no way you should be able to go back to amateur. Experience is huge and I think there should be a cap of 5 – 7 fights allowed when you are an amateur regardless of your record. If your a filler then be a filler and get paid to take it on the chin, that will at least make it worth it for yourself.

11:40 pm
October 25, 2010


Marc-Andre Drolet

Admin

posts 216

19

Appreciate your input on the site Eric. Most people think you are younger than you are, just cause your small.

Don't let that fool you people, Eric has been around awhile. He's sneaky.

Eric has been fighting as long as it was an option

1:17 am
October 28, 2010


ARMBAHH

Member

posts 18

20

Marc-Andre Drolet said:

In the perfect world once going pro you shouldn't be fighting amature. But the reality of it is, what's the difference in MMA?

Only now are real amature rules being put in place.

There were days where we fought in what was called Amature, yet pride rules were in effect. Amature only meant there was no commission, and we weren't getting paid.

I think as the sport progresses we'll see less of this.


the difference is huge,  3 min rounds in ammy compared to 5min in pro, bigger gloves and shin pads in ammy, more rules in ammy.  smaller crowds in ammy so a fighter with any pro record would have the advantage of performing in a larger scale show.  I agree as things progress this wil;l definetly happen much less, like boxing, etc…?

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