CNMMAF Update – January 3, 2014

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CNMMAF THUMBHere is an update on the current plans of the Canadian National MMA Federation (CNMMAF) as Top MMA News understands as of January 3rd.  If anything is wrong or out of date, please update the site so this post can be updated.

Information on this has come from:

  • the CNMMAF web sites,
  • Wayne Williams (Brian CNMMAF on Facebook),
  • Ashida Funikoshi (CNMMAF Manitoba on Facebook/ may be a fictional character),  National Technical Advisor
  • Alex Gasson, promoter of the CNMMAF national tournament and AMMACS promoter
  • Jamie McGowan, Victory MMA promoter
  • Garnet Ace, CNMMA national team manager, owner of Tapout Burlington, former promoter of Global Warriors
  • IMMAF web site


Here is what is known.  This is always evolving:

  • President of CNMMAF is Dr. John J. Williams, DD, CCHt, DCHt, EFT.  Formerly of Elite 1 MMA, promoter of amateur Moncton show Canadian Extreme Cage Rage,  allegedly faked his only MMA fight at age of 70, formerly of Saigo Gym.
  • Vice-President of CNMMAF is Bill Mahood.  Former UFC fighter, formerly of Revolution Gym, former XFC promoter, currently involved with the Grande Prairie commission.
  • The CNMMAF claims to be recognized by the International MMA Federation (IMMAF), which was recognized by Dana White and the UFC.
  • Jamie McGowan, of the amateur Quebec MMA organization called Victory MMA, claims that CNMMAF is not recognized by the IMMAF.  They only have an application submitted to IMMAF.
  • The CAMMAF is a separate Canadian Amateur MMA Federation that claims to be affiliated with IMMAF.  John Williams and Bill Mahood are listed on their site.
  • The IMMAF lists the CNMMAF as the national amateur MMA organization in Canada and lists it under their contact us section of their web site HERE.
  • There is a registration fee for fighters to join CNMMAF.  This will give you a CNMMAF passport and allow you to enter tournaments.  No word on how to register.  Fee was something like $40-$50.  CNMMAF sites no longer have this info.
  • CNMMAF was going to crown provincial champions in 10 male and 10 female weight classes in tournaments where amateur MMA is allowed by January 2014.
  • A CNMMAF National Council was going to name provincial champions in 10 male and 10 female weight classes where amateur MMA is not sanctioned by January 2014.
  • Ari Taub was to run the national tournament in April in Alberta.
  • Now, it appears that a CNMMAF National Council will invite fighters to participate in a one day tournament in Ontario to crown a National champion.  This tournament will be promoted by Alex Gasson.
  • Alex Gasson currently runs the AMMACS amateur MMA organization in Ontario.  It operates provincially under the Ontario Grappling Alliance and sanctioned nationally under the Canadian Combat Association.
  • Fighters will be responsible for their travel and lodging at the national tournament.
  • Garnet Ace is looking to fill medical and coaching positions on the national team.
  • The winners of the national tournament will participate in the IMMAF national amateur tournament in Las Vegas, Nevada in July.  It will be held in conjunction with the UFC Fan Expo at that time. 
  • A press release will be issued next week.

National Tournament Rules:

  • The rules of the tournament will be based on the AMMACS rules.  AMMACS rules can be read HERE.
  • Each match is one five minute round with a selected winner via points, or submission.
  • If there is a tie at end of regulation, a 1 minute overtime is set.
  • If it still a draw after overtime…4 judges plus tournament director must make a decision on winner. If one cannot be made a Draw is called.
  • Since this is a tournament, someone will have to move on in a method still to be determined.

CNMMAF Organization***

  • National Executives
    • John J. Williams, DD, CCHt, DCHt, EFT, President
    • Eddie Williams, National Director
    • Shawn Hachey, Central Canada Executive
    • Bill Mahood, Western Canada Executive
    • Steven J Wong, National Technical Advisor
    • Steven Williams, National Events Coordinator
    • Christina Nielsen, National Secretary
    • Celina Martin, National Secretary
    • Rob Pelletier, National Director +++
  • Alberta
    • Stuart Franklin, Provincial Director
    • Terry Richard, Board Member
    • Andrew Carine, Board Member
    • Marvin Ishmael, Board Member
  • British Columbia
    • Christina Nielsen, Provincial Director
  • Manitoba
    • Frederick Natividad, Provincial Director
  • New Brunswick
    • Eddie Williams, Provincial Director
    • Corey M Forsythe, Board Of Directors
    • Chris Jessulat, Board of Directors
    • Jamie Mills, Board of Directors
    • Rachael Williams, Board of Directors
  • Newfoundland
    • Jamie Yetman, Provincial Director
    • Noel Strapp, Board of Directors
    • Robbie Wiseman, Board of Directors
    • Peter Yetman, Board of Directors
    • George Gillespie, Board of Directors
    • Mike Samson, Board of Directors
    • Radafy Ranaivo, Treasurer
  • Nova Scotia
    • Lisa Lawrence, Provincial Director
    • Christine Angelidis, Provincial Secretary
    • Andrew Leights, Provincial Secretary
  • Ontario
    • Shawn Hachey, Ontario, Provincial Director
  • Prince Edward Island
    • Matt MacGrath, Provincial Director
  • Saskatchewan
    • Shawn Pauliuk, Provincial Director

*** Source: CNMMAF.org Web Site (January 3, 2013)
+++ Source: Cnmmaf Mma Mma Westerncanada FB (posted January 2, 2013)

70 Responses to “ CNMMAF Update – January 3, 2014 ”

  1. AMLECF says:

    This whole thing smells like bologna

    Well-loved! Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0

  2. Robin Black says:

    If this is true…

    “Ashida Funikoshi (CNMMAF Manitoba on Facebook/ may be a fictional character), National Technical Advisor”

    …that they list a fictional character as a ‘National Technical Advisor’, I’d say this would be extremely damaging to the organization’s credibility.

    Let’s see how long until he disappears.

    For the good, proven people like Alex Gasson and Bill Mahood this would not be a good look.

    Well-loved! Thumb up 15 Thumb down 1

  3. There is an error there about the rules. Any IMMAF related tournament in Canada to be recognized as such would have to use IMMAF rules which they are trying to make the international and national standards. Every tournament in Ontario held so far as been very far from the IMMAF rules. Any prommoter must use the IMMAF rules which currently are not actually sanctioned in a single province in Canada including in Quebec though the FQBM is about 90% there already.

    Here is the link for the rules which allow small gloves, knees, no head gear, and blood tests.

    http://www.immaf.org/rules-2/

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  4. And people can argue or focus on who is allowed to sanction what but at the end of the day these organisations are only there to provide just that santioning and organisation. They are not and should not be promoters. Imagine if in pro the UFC was also the pro commission everywhere it went?? Then all the TRT guys could fight anywhere and they wouldn’t have to hide guys in Brazil lol

    Well-loved! Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

  5. Update 1/3/2014: Added cast of CNMMAF characters from their web site.

    Note: Alex Gasson, Garnet Ace, Ashida Funikoshi, Wayne Williams are not listed on the CNMMAF website wheel of executives.

    One thing I have found is that the CNMMAF cast of characters changes rapidly. That can happen with no organizations as you cast off those who cannot make the time commitment.

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  6. wallet says:

    this smacks of bs and i notice the guy with the best reputation gasson and the guy with the worst garnet ace and a guy who might be fake have all disappeared. what happened to there 20 provincial champions being crowned by January?

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  7. Suspiously there is no representative for Quebec on their list. According to a CBC report in September 2013 they reported that 70% of all amateur fights held in Canada in 2013 were in Quebec. 70% is almost 3/4 of all sanctioned fights held that year in the entire country that leaves only 30% left for all the other provinces combined. And there board is full of people in places where amateur is either non-existant or barely just starting. While in Quebec the FQBM (Quebec amateur MMA Federation: see http://www.fqbm.ca) under its national umbrella have been CAMMAF (Canadian Mixed Martial Arts Federation) have been sanctioning events for at least 10 years and has many seasoned coaches and promoters and organisers. People should wonder why Quebec is absent.

    Well-loved! Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

  8. wallet says:

    also what happened to taub i thought he was a part of this?

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  9. Update 1/3: CNMMAF will issue a press release next week.

    – Keith Grienke, BComm (Hons), LOL, CBC, PCP, RSP, WTF

    Well-loved! Thumb up 15 Thumb down 0

  10. I’d like to thank Alex Gasson for answering a lot of my questions. It has been hard to get straight answers from CNMMAF and Alex has been extremely open the past couple of days.

    Well-loved! Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0

  11. Robin Black says:

    Alex Gasson is a straight shooter, a stand up guy, and a gentleman.

    Everything he does is for the good of the sport. He’s beyond reproach.

    Hopefully the people he works with don’t have their own agendas and motivations. If they’re half the human being he is this will turn out great.

    Well-loved! Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1

  12. Robin Black says:

    Also lol at Ashida disappearing in under 10 minutes from posting time.

    I wish these guys hadn’t started out with insane unachievable claims (provincial champions by when?) and dodgy statements and dicey behavior.

    It would have been nice to be excited about something new instead of seeing the same old crazy statements and impossible bizarre bold claims.

    Well-loved! Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

  13. LOL says:

    Has anyone spoken to Mahood?

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  14. While there is no Quebec rep on the list provided above, they do have what appears to be a phantom facebook page for Quebec and they refuse to identify themselves even though they have announced future activities for Quebec.

    https://www.facebook.com/philipcnmmaf?fref=ts

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  15. At the end of the day, the model of organisation of CNMMAF appears to be based on getting a few directors government funding and salaries and having all the fighters pay for everything like airfare and transport. As anyone with half a brain knows that in national tournaments in Canada like this they are not so much a collection of the best athletes but those that can afford to attend.

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  16. WTF are the credentials DD, CCHt, DCHt, EFT ???

    Well-loved! Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

  17. D.Pearson says:

    Despite their intentions, renegade amateur associations do nothing for the unity of the sport. If an amateur sport wants to eventually be included under the Olympic umbrella, or be taken serious, as platform to professional levels, the governing body really should be supported by the provincial bodies that govern amateur sport. I wonder where Sport Manitoba, Sport Alberta and similar associations stand on this.

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  18. AMLECF says:

    Sounds like grade A Bologna

    Well-loved! Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

  19. Pat Wilson says:

    Until I see anything positive actually happen from this I still call BS, Wayne Williams is a theif and went in hiding after ripping many people off. And now to see they have Shawn Pauliuk involved just doesn’t make sense.

    Im with MAD and Robin on this one

    Well-loved! Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

  20. Shawn Pauliuk – writing bad cheques, 0-5 MMA fighter, Worker’s Compensation Board fraud.

    http://www.starnews.ca/news/article_94f9f034-a1f8-11e2-9560-0019bb30f31a.html

    Well-loved! Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

  21. fitnessplus says:

    Some of the directors from Nova Scotia shouldn’t be on the board of anything. One was recently kicked out of an ammy event in NB for being too hammered just this summer.

    Well-loved! Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

  22. I’ve never heard of Frederick Natividad. Not sure what he has to do with MMA in Manitoba.

    Well-loved! Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  23. Robin Black says:

    Ditto Shawn Hachey, who is the Ontario Director.

    A quick google search produces no such person in Ontario, let alone one with a history in Martial Arts or even admin business.

    Is this like Ontario’s Ashida or is his name just spelled wrong?

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  24. Pat Wilson says:

    Thats him and the same Shawn Pauliuk that was involved with Saigo MMA which was basically the same promises and fees to fighters except it was pro fighters.

    Well-loved! Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  25. Robin Black says:

    @MAD Natividad’s website says his dojo is focused on MMA for street defense instead of trying to train ‘the next cage champion’.

    Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

  26. Shane BTP Mountney says:

    Lol…oh my…yeah cause the techniques used in the sport have no validity in the streets….lmao

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 5

  27. Bruno Lurette says:

    All this CNMMAF thing is a big joke. First of all John Williams and Steven Williams did some bad things in Moncton NB. I don’t want to get into that but they did enough that Gerry Thomas president of Moncton boxing and wrestling comission banned them from doing any shows in N.-B. and they also send a letter to stop them from promoting any show to all the comission across Canada and even to the one in New-Jersey.
    They don’t even have a federation register here in NB their own province. We have one register under the CAMMAF the NBAMMAF.
    John and Steven try to contact me trying to make me think that they were with the IMMAF. They asked me to take care and control north of NB and they wanted me to give them money from the profit of all the shows held in the north. Wich I never did because I really believe in the way the FQBM work: you have to have a mma gym to do a amateur show so all the profit stay in the sport. So there is no promoter in amateur mma like in pro. Its not about money its about developing fighters and helping school growth and stay alive…
    I did bring a fighter to John and Steven in their last show in Moncton because I was not allowed to do more show in the north because John Williams call the police so many time to stop me that the police had no choice to come and stop me even if they knew I was doing something good for fighters ect..They were not sure about the 83 law.
    So I went there because my fighter really wanted to fight. So Steven lied to me and told me the guy had only 2 fights and when we arrived there the guy had around 20 fights and fought in Thailand ect..this could have been very dangereous for my guy. And I heard so many thing like that that they did.
    One last thing about those clowns. John and Steven who had Elite 1 before wich was only pro mma, sale the company to Mike Williams son of John and brother of Steven of corse lol
    And after that they started another promotion Cage Rage only amateur but they put rules similar to pro with no shinpads and 6-8oz gloves depend on the gloves available lol So they this idea of doing those show who look like pro but not paying fighter. And they try to stop Mike from doing is show with Elite 1 ect.. Mike Williams doesn’t like is father and brother at all. I met Mike 2 months ago and we talked alot. Mike take good care of fighters health and doesn’t want to have anything to do with is father or is brother.
    So it just show you that John Williams and Steven Williams are not good for our sport.
    They try to convaince everybody by lying on facebook. I’m just happy that people start to see their game.
    We need to unified under the CAMMAF who will be the real federation who will be reconize by the IMMAF, at it will be soon….

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  28. Update 1/3: Added Rob Pelletier as a CNMMAF National Director

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  29. And in the blue corner….CAMMAF, which also claims to be a member of IMMAF. Bill Mahood and John Williams are listed on their web site as National Technical Directors. President is Jean-Charles Cardinal.

    http://cammaf.com/

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  30. Bruno Lurette says:

    Yes I know its a little strange because John Williams and Bill Mahood used to be with the CAMMAF but then John as this amazing idea that he wanted to be the boss in Canada so he left the CAMMAF and started the CNMMAF couple of months ago and he was able to convaince Bill to fallow him. I’m pretty sure Bill never met John before and he don’t know how he is and what he did…
    The CAMMAF is sting working well, Jean-Charles Cardinal is still the president. They just didn’t make all the update on the website…

    Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

  31. Update 1/3: It looks like the IMMAF recognizes the CNMMAF based on their Contact Us section. Check it out here: http://www.immaf.org/contact/

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  32. Jeff Harrison says:

    As far as I know, the CASK AMMA tourneys have provincial and national government backing, are properly insured, and well organized. Too bad more gyms haven’t jumped on board. If CASK and combative sport Canada already have PSO status for AMMA in Ontario, how will this group also achieve government sanctioning? Who provides the insurance for the amateur fights?

    Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

  33. Robin Black says:

    @MAD re: Frederick Natividad

    From his website-

    ‘Unlike other MMA facilities in Winnipeg, our MMA program our training focus is a self-defence or streetfighting mindset versus our students becoming the next “Octagon Champion”.’

    So I think the line has clearly been drawn to ‘other MMA facilities’ like Master Denetale’s and Master Brigham’s.

    **********

    If you sold whale blubber (TMA schools) in a world that was driven by oil (real MMA trainer’s academies) you would need to find creative ways to stay in the game.

    Voila. CNMMAF.

    Well-loved! Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0

  34. One serious question for all MMA stakeholders in Canada –

    Leaving aside any specific organization discussed in this thread, do you see a need for a National Sport Organization to oversee the growth of amateur MMA in Canada (Similar to what Hockey Canada does for amateur hockey).

    IE – Fielding national and international competition on the amateur side. Not necessarily for athletes who wish to turn pro but to foster and grow the sport on a grass roots level for all who wish to be involved in MMA whatever their ultimate aspirations.

    Is there a need for this in MMA or given the nature of the sport is this something that would not be of benefit?

    Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

  35. Bruno Lurette says:

    All we want in the end(except 1% who look for control and $) is to be able to do or participate in safe shows so our athletes can compete and evovle. Its very hard for MMA clubs when we cannot do shows. Can you imagine how many people would show up at the hockey practice if there was no game…
    In Quebec last year the FQBM did around 54 shows and everything went well. So I think we should take a minute and study how they do it. And they are under the CAMMAF wich is under the IMMAF even if John and Steven try to say differently…

    Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0

  36. Robin Black says:

    @Erik

    An NSO for amateur MMA could be good in theory one day.

    The issue is that it does not seem possible at this young stage of development.

    There just is not the educated manpower in the game to pull it off yet. There isn’t even an existing amateur system across the country for Chrissakes. Why try to develop a bureaucracy when there’s no developed system?

    It is not possible to develop, market, and promote a barely existing amateur system AND develop an NSO at the same time. Lunacy.

    Amateur MMA has been well developed in Quebec. Logically there might be the people there that could start to develop an NSO. But it will take 3 or 4 years for amateur MMA to shake itself out in the rest of the country and, hopefully, some educated AMMA people will develop in other regions as it does.

    What seems to be a bad idea is some people being in a rush to try to force the development of an NSO so they can be “first”. “First” serves no purpose for the sport or the athletes, it’s only there to try to create money/power/control for a group rushing in.

    If amateur can develop for half a decade hopefully it will move in the right direction.

    Maybe Alex Gasson will develop AMMA in Ontario a bit then in 3 or 4 years put something together with the right people in Quebec, the west, and The Maritimes.

    But right now this is straight dumb.

    Well-loved! Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0

  37. There is a facebook page called CNMMAF QUEBEC that is active and mentioning activities. Turns out its Steve Williams. So now they are trying to make it look like they are active in Quebec when they are not.

    Well-loved! Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

  38. One of the main claims made by CNMMAF is that are against anyone profiting from amateur MMA. Besides the fact that this implies they are trying to setup a bureaucratic board with government funding and Bruno Laurette’s comments about John Williams as a shady promoter let’s talk about this directly.

    The Quebec model is hardly perfect but the best two things about it have been this:
    1) Fees and lack of bureacracy: For years the FQBM operated with no fees and over the year they gradually increased them. Starting 2014 for the first time they are asking for fees from clubs of $100 per year and from fighters $30. This pales in comparison to ther sports Federations in Quebec like the boxing Federation that charges $400 for clubs and $80 for fighters per year. By contrast in Ontario CASK requires:

    Athlete/Coach Requirements
    All athletes and coaches are required to be members of a CASK registered club that have completed all registration requirements for the calendar year.

    All coaches must also register annually and are required to complete a Level I Coaching Course (one time course); a vulnerability sector police screen (every three years); and a first aid course (every three years).

    All athletes must be registered with CASK prior to competing. Registration is done annually and requires the completion of a CASK medical exam conducted by a physician.

    Athletes are matched in competition through CASK regulations for age, weight, and combat sport experience.

    Only fully registered athletes are permitted to compete in CASK sanctioned events. There are a number of administration requirements including timelines for registration and medicals that must be followed. For more information on membership please contact the CASK office.

    The fees include $650 per year for a club, $75 per year for each fighter and $75 per year for each coach PLUS the coaches have pay for and pay thru their coaching certification course lke they know what MMA is and a first aid course and police check. AND all of this is expected to be done by each club which is over $1000 of fees from each club and if ou are talking about 100 MMA clubs in Ontario is over $100,000 in fees to made. And in the end they only held one event in two years and then called the police and tried to close down Alex Gasson’s AMMACS tournament unsuccessfully.

    By contrast in Quebec we never had fees to fight over and subsequently little political problems unlike in all of the other regios of Quebec. In 2013 fighters and clubs paid no fees to the FQBM and at least 54 events were held. The only fees paid to the FQBM was a $300 sanctioning fee.

    2) The role of the promoter: The FQBM has played a role in developing the sport but a greater role has been played by the amateur promoters. Well who are the amateur promoters? By the bylaws of the FQBM you have to be a member club to have the right to be sanctioned. This protects against outside promoters coming in looking to make money. So whenever there was “profit” to be made it was made by the coach and host MMA team. Basically instead of having bake sales or bingos to fundraise for our team and gyms we held fight events. This is one of the main reasons why the sport has grown exponentially in Quebec. The power resides in the hands of the coaches and most of money generated went to the teams instead of to some bureaucrats. This is the main reasons why the sport will explode is followed in other regions especially in Ontario if the Quebec model with a larger population then Quebec and plenty of gyms with people that have been coming to Quebec for years and why some people are looking to take advantage of this and control it.

    3) Insurance: there has been alot of talk about insurance and that a naional or provincial federation needs insurance and the crazy ridiculous fees proposed by everyone else except the FQBM is to justify insurance costs. The Quebec model was able to go around having insurance for the Federation because originally all of the events were held in gyms. And if you have a gym you have to have liability insurance for your gym with a minimum of one million dollars in case someone is seriously injured at our gym. In my case when I do events outside my gym for VICTORY MMA I take a rider on my insurance policy for the event. But in all of the 10 years of operations and over 4000 fights held in Quebec there has never been a single serious injury that caused a lawsuit against the promoter or the Federation. Usually the purpose of insurance by a sports Federation is to protect them against a lawsuit by an injured competitor and NOT for the protection of the athlete. With that said, starting 2014 the FQBM will all include insurance as part of their event sanctioning fee.

    4) Rules: In Quebec unlike in the US and Alberta and the Maritimes amateur MMA has been drastically different and safer than in those amateur scenes and especially compared to pro. In Quebec amateur MMA no knee strikes are ever allowed and shin pads and 12 oz modified boxing gloves are used. IMMAF and the CNMMAF are proposing using knee strikes, small glove sand no head gear. Which is alot closer to pro than what has been used in Quebec and will lead to more injuries. With that said, since the FQBM is a democratic structure and has to deal with the government it was already approved last year by its members to develop a smaller 10 oz glove which could be approved by the government. And it has been an open discussion to allow knees or not. I have organised Muay Thai events with the Quebec Muay Thai Federation where they allow knees without knee pads and there have definetly been some injuries from these to the fighters so that remains an issue to be resolved.

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  39. Scott B. says:

    hey BTP you should have used some of those techniques in Hull back in 94. that was one crazy night!

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  40. I think the biggest issue with having a National body is that there is no uniform set of rules that are used for Amateur MMA, and many places don’t sanction it.

    Until we have a proper framework in place to do it properly, there is no point in a national board.

    Well-loved! Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1

  41. Donald Duck says:

    I think a national body is a good idea however not in the manner in which these dildos is doing it. (Sorry I’ve been watching a lot of Metalocalypse over the holidays).

    What needs to happen (yes I do mean ‘needs to’) is for some sort of ‘advisory’ board to come together which could be the SMEs for the local commissions across Canada. This group would be able to maintain arm’s length from regulating and be able to keep promoters interests separate. Someone mentioned hockey and I think the example of “Hockey Canada” is a good model to look at with some minor tweaks.

    To see MMA survive what needs to happen is not a greater level of protection of Amateurs (basically cause the people that will do MMA will always do MMA on some level) but rather a move to greater level of acceptance of the sport across the general population.

    Jerk Offs like these guys work to prey on the “johnny come latelies’ of the martial art world and frankly that won’t help us move to a point where MMA is part of gym class or a modified version of MMA is a community sport.

    Boxing has survived and will continue to survive due to its accessibility and acceptance. There is no reason why this couldn’t be the case for MMA.

    However (to parallel this) could you imagine if a “Skipping Rope” grandmaster decided to start squawking that since skipping rope is a fundamental of boxing he should be able to weigh in on the regulation, promotion and licensing of boxing without knowing the first thing about the totality of the sport?

    Yeah, neither could I.

    Ashida (et al.) go back to musical kata and hunting Paul Mitchell sponsorships and leave the MMA to us.

    Donnie

    Well-loved! Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

  42. Robin Black says:

    Top notch post by The Duck.

    Top notch.

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  43. Donald Duck says:

    Bah! You just skim read it to the hair product reference.

    I know your kind Black.

    Donnie

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  44. Robin Black says:

    Paul Mitchell loves krotty.

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  45. Donald Duck says:

    He does.

    He certainly does.

    Donnie

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  46. Jeff Harrison says:

    Amateur MMA’s best chance in Ontario is CSC. They have held government regulated tournaments with Proper Insurance, medical staff, paramedics, officials, and members of the ministry of sport and recreation present. The infrastructure for regulated competition has been in place for several years now, and the tournaments have been of a fairly high level ( purple belt BJJ practitioners, university wrestlers, champion level Thai boxers and kickboxers). IMO many of the young athletes involved have promising futures for sure. Many of the ‘hardcore’ members of the community have stayed away from CASK/ CSC for the following reasons ( in my humble opinion) :
    -The president of the association is a karate kickboxer. Maz.
    -there are medical tests, association fees, and passport fees for the athletes
    – there is a club registration fee
    – there are police background checks and first aid requirements to coach

    The reason for all the paperwork is simple: if you want government sanctioning as a PSO or NSO you must provide a system that is completely liability free for the government that backs it. It must be insured to the highest level so that IF something actually happens in terms of an accident, the claim will stand. I doubt this new organization in Canada has or will ever gain PSO status, or has proper insurance that will stand in case of a liability claim.
    This chat of making something in this province that already exists is frustrating! What is confusing is the mix of legit members of the MMA community, and the absolute hacks they are getting into bed with on this.
    There IS A PSO for AMMA in Ontario. I have been asked to join the national Commitee for CSC’s MMA in 2014 and hope to help bring other clubs and athletes on board. Cheers.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 5

  47. to Jeff harrison

    what tournamentS have they held??? As far as i am aware they held only one tournament in more than two years and from all the reports I heard it was almost a complete fiasco and they have not held another one since as a result. Plus the fees they are asking people to compete is ridiculous: $650 for the club, $75 for each coach, $75 for each fighter, plus mandatory certification courses for the coaches as if the coaches in Ontario don’t know anything about MMA. People have stayed away people of the fiasco of their first tournament, the crazy fees which means over $1000 in fees for a club to compete with a few fighters, and their rules that are completely out of touch with most other current amateur MMA. For instance they allow a standing 8 count after someone has been knocked down and stop the fight from continuing on the ground which is both dangerous to the fighter after he gets knocked out to let the fight be restarted standing and is against the sport of MMA which allows the ground game AFTER a downed fighter. PLUS having a kickboxing organisation control and regulate MMA as a sideshow is not the best idea. That is like giving control of boxing to a wrestling organisation. An organisation needs to exist to regulate and sanction MMA inOntario that is completely dedicated to MMA and doesn’t use it as a sideshow attraction or extra money grab as it appears so far with CASK/ CSC unfortunately to the general public.

    The whole thing about insurance is a farce. The only reasons organisations get insurance is to protect themselves from being sued by injured competitors and NOT for the protection of the athletes. In the Quebec model we dealt with this by having events in gyms where there was already a pre-existing liability insurance that is standard for all gym owners to protect them from getting sued in the event that someone is injured in their gym from training. When I do events outside my gym I take a rider on my insurance to protect my company that is the promoter from a possible lawsuit. Our provincial federation is now going to be providing insurance also for events as part of its sanctioning fees for 2014 but this is basically a protection for them in case someone gets injured and wants to sue them.

    Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

  48. Maeda says:

    I wonder where Harrison’s monetary interests lay. Even reputable fighters/coaches, not just nobodies are trying to get a piece of the pie, no matter who is defrauded with these so-called organizations

    Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

  49. Jeff Harrison says:

    There have been 3 tournaments held, each with growing support. Although a member of the media wrote a scathing and spiteful review, I assure you the clubs that supported, including many mainstays of the professional scene, the audience in attendance, and the members of the ministry present were happy. I am yet to be involved in the beaurocracy in the past, but have been present as a coach. Paying the fees is a non issue for most of the gyms, as a-it’s only a small amount b- find value in the fact that it is government regulated and insured c- unsanctioned events in 2013 resulted in police interference, political bickering, and even a death. No thanks.. I’d rather have 2 doctors present, have transparent policies and procedures that are written out and followed to a tee.

    The CSC /CASK has years of successfully sanctioning amateur kickboxing, followed now by years of taking on Thai Boxing and K1. When they took over Thai after the demise of CAMTAO it was met with a lot of resistance, myself included.. but seeing how CASK has shaped athletes has made me
    a believer. The tournaments are a chance to get our fighters4-5 fights in a weekend, multiple times a year, not even including regular fight card shows. Guys can get over 20
    Fights in a year.. which translates into success when thwy turn pro. ( see our boy Rob Thomas , CASK champion,
    5-0 as a pro in 2013 and making glory debut on their upcoming croatia show) In June it will be 2 years of hosting AMMA tournaments for ALL ages of athlete. Again, I will stress I have only trained athletes for these events, and do not know the behind the scenes, nor do I speak for CASK. I just advocate that the tournaments are well run, the rules are fine and constantly being adjusted ( the 8 count rule was dropped), and it’s run and regulated by a team of not only
    Kickboxers, but well respected members of the MMA scene.

    Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

  50. Hey Jeff,

    I have been in contact with MMA gyms for years coming to Quebec and this is the first that I heard of CASK doing 3 events in 2 years. But even if this is true it actually better illustrates the point that having one organisation acting as both a sanctioning body AND a promoter is a problem and impedes development of the sport rather than expands it. The exception would be in a province that has both no regulatory body and small base of clubs to develop promoters. This is not the case in the populous province of Ontario. In this situation having one single organisation acting as both a sanctioning body AND a promoter actually puts a stranglehold or monopoloy on the sport and under the control of a very select few. Further evidence of this is that i heard the president of CASK tried unsuccessfully to have the police shutdown the last AMMACS tournament by promoter Alex Gasson in December. At a time when Ontario needs more opportunities for amateur fighters CASK is trying to shut other promoters down. This is completely unacceptable. This type of behavior is also called a racket.

    In Quebec we have a seperation between the sanctioning body and the promoters. The promoters are all member clubs of the santioning body the FQBM. In the same time period that CASK held and promoted 3 of its events in 2 years, the FQBM promoted only one if its own self-organised tournaments but sanctioned and ran over 100 events organised by at least 25 different promoters. We have a bylaw limit of a maximum of 4 events per member club per year or this number would have been greater.

    In fact during the time of CASK’s efforts jn MMA it hasn’t affected at all the increasing amounts of fighters from Ontario to fight here in Quebec. How you can you think that requiring clubs to pay over $2000 of two years annual fees to participate in CASK 3 events in the last two years is justifiable and that clubs are happy to pay that. I can tell you that one of the reasons that fighters come here from Ontario is not only the lack of opportunities in Ontario but also because the teams cannot afford the fees and are opposed to paying such high fees in principle just to compete in an amateur sport.

    Last, your reasoning for the monopoly that CASK is struggling to maintain in amateur MMA in Ontario is due to safety ckncerns due to unsanctioned events sounds very unfounded. I do not know the details of the death you mentioned but in Quebec the record speaks for itself. In 10 years of operation of the FQBM and amateur fights here there has not been a single serious injury or lawsuit due to an injury against any promoter or the FQBM. It appears that the cries about fighter safety and unsanctioned events is a smokescreen that has been put up by CASK as a justification for their complete control of the sport by working as both the sanctioning body and promoter and as a means of intimidation. This is hardly what Ontario needs, not less opportunities to compete but more.

    Well-loved! Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

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