Kim Couture will be fighting at AX Combat
Embarrassing officiating! The sport does not need this!
congrats to Bird… But that ref is on crack,,,,He needs to be choked for a good half minute
Yes… there should be a minimum amount of submission grappling/BJJ training for refs to get licensed. We say getting choked out isn’t that dangerous when we grapple (which I think should be a debate in itself), but getting choked out unconscious and depriving the brain of oxygen for much longer than necessary after that point is (which certainly everyone can agree on). Perhaps some commission types could come on here and discuss the minimum grappling background requirements that a ref needs to have. My guess is not much, otherwise Kyle Cardinal would be the only ref in Alberta.
Doesn’t seem to make sense to me that ref’s don’t have a huge level of knowledge of the sport. I’m not sure how it works everywhere but I have always thought that the UFC helped train up the refs who worked in areas where they held shows.
Do promoters take a position on refs? Do they help train them? I understand the potential for conflict of interest but this could be worked out.
For what its worth I watched this event live (online) and have re-watched the fight a couple of times now. At the most she seems out for 6-8 seconds before the fight is stopped.
Personally I think the only ‘bad’ call of the night was in the early stoppage in the main event. That was the biggest let down of the night.
Extremely dangerous to continue to deprive the brain of oxygen like that. The reff should have stopped it as soon as she went out it’s pretty fuckkin clear. N bird is the best female mma fighter that canada has.
Calgary Commission Investigating… http://mmaweekly.com/calgary-commission-investigating-call-in-kim-couture-vs-sheila-bird-fight
The ref was sleeping on the job. When Couture`s legs went limp, that should have been the first sign somethings up. Completely under qualified.
And I agree…Sheila Bird has the potential to be the best female MMA fighter from Canada. She`s a real fighter.
That’s a good start. It’s clear that he just didn’t realize that there was even a choke taking place and that’s the scary part.
People are probably gonna shit on me, BUT…
I actually think Len is a good ref, but unfortunately he made a big mistake.
It isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. It’s like all the sudden we have a witch hunt and people wanna strip, tar and feather Len.
I will promise you that in most mma shows many of the refs don’t know all the moves and this applies even to “higher” level shows.
I am sure many have seen events similar and even worse. Shit I’ve seen worse in the Edmonton area.
Just off the top of my head.
Example: Hardcore Championship Fighting (River Cree)
Ref: White haired guy, Brian Barnhardt or something.
Marcus Vinicios knocked out Mike Yackulic, and Mike was clearly out, then proceeded to hit him at least 5-7 more times I think while the ref stood there waiting for I dunno what. It really was scary to watch and the aftermath was very uncomfortable as well.
How bout UFC 96 (Columbus OH)
Ref: Highly respected Yves Lavigne
Matt Brown repeatedly dropped and hurt Pete Sell and ref lets fight go on as people were freaking out. I’m sure you all remember that.
Trigg vs Lawler
Trigg was obviously KO and Lawler unloaded with 3 huge punches then a death uppercut.
Half the fights in Pride: Just a few examples… Wandy or Arona vs Sak, Enson Inoue vs Igor Vovchanchyn, Thompson vs Yoshida and Frye and the list goes on!
or WEC 19 (Lemoor Cali)
Razor Rob vs Olaf Alfonso
Epic KO by Razor Rob then multiple shots to a clearly unconscious Alfonso.
How many fights have you seen where the ref stops the fight way early, it happens all the time it seems to me!
How bout Wiman vs Danzig, Conan vs Sak, Bradley vs Nover, Riley vs Nelson.
Was Koivisto in the wrong, yes 100% but should he be burned at the stake no.
Lets just not act like it’s the first time ever!
Mob mentality by some in my opinion.
I see your point, Bobby, but just because it isn’t the first time is not an appropriate justification by any means. I think it is important to bring to light the mistakes that are made, so we can improve the overall situation so this doesn’t happen as often going into the future, and the all the events that you mention as well happen less and less. Being a ref has to be a thankless job (I don’t think I could do it), but given the sport and that people’s safety is at risk, I think it is important to identify mistakes, make them known, and improve upon them. At least now that some attention has been given to this particular issue, more than just this ref is reminded to do their homework on the ever-changing fighting game, and even the individual fighters they are tasked with reffing.
I’m not trying to justify anything and no one is saying not to bring light to the events that happened. Identifying mistakes and improving on them is great, my issue is that he’s being burned at the stake over this.
Also I’m sure another reason this is being pursued so aggressively is due to the fact that the people involved are female competitors and her last name is Couture.
Most people won’t wanna admit it, but why else would a 2-5 (or whatever her record is) fighter get coverage around the world about this issue when it unfortunately happens quite often on the local/regional.
Also the commission is “investigation” him, investigate yourselves.
Reffing sucks the world over. Fire em all.
I think it was a late stoppage and a ref with well-rounded knowledge like Kyle Cardinal or Jerin Valel are much better suited to reffing MMA.
However, I agree with Bobby. This is overblown. I talked about this on radio (will be up today).
If a person believes that holding onto a choke for 6-10 seconds long will cause severe brain damage or even death (as many sites have maintained), then shouldn’t chokes be taken out of the Unified Rules and banned from MMA?
Kris the brutal thing is, I think that was the first ever mma show in Turkey.
Also it’s the commissions responsibility to make sure that refs that they use are properly trained, same goes for the judges which rarely if ever seem to actually know what they’re doing.
Was a general comment, not directed at any one specific commission.
Totally agree bk, as usual.
Reffing is a tough job for sure. Anyone can make a mistake but a ref does need to have the necessary knowledge of striking and submissions to keep the fighters safe and to make sure the fight continues accordingly, that is let it proceed on the ground when things are happening and not jump to stand ups when there is grappling action.
Len is certainly not the only ref to make a mistake and maybe Len does usually do a good job, but i have had him ref one of my fighters as well and lack of ground knowledge was obvious.
He stood my fighter up when he had just fully sunk an arm triangle after working for a minute to get the choke on… in this case no one was physically hurt, but my fighter ended up with a loss on his record when he should have won by sub (lyndsey millikin vs greg welsh EFC).
I hate to be one of the guys trashing people on here, but there must be ground knowledge requirements to ref mma fights.
Wow Graham I didnt realize this was the same ref. Lyndsey being stood up in that fight was ridiculous. I was there as well, and I couldnt believe my eyes when he stood them up.
yep, crazy… a bit of pattern of poor grappling calls that can’t really be ignored
Ya I wasn’t trying to burn this particular ref at the stake – just bringing attention to the issue so people can continue to learn. As a result, however, perhaps we have identified one particular ref that needs to do a little homework. Whether the commission(s) he works for need to make sure this happens, or he himself needs to make sure this happens, the point is that it needs to happen. And by no means is he the only one. The majority of refs likely do not train in the arts they are reffing. We need refs so that isn’t gonna change. But the homework still needs to get done.
That guy should never ref again. Maybe learn something about BJJ and grappling. That was disgusting. No excuse for that kind of shit.
Couture has some nice legs,, i think the ref noticed them too. She was out cold and the ref was trying to get a better view of those panties… pay attention buddy
Statement from the Calgary Combative Sports Commission
“No further action or investigations into the officiating of Mr. Koivisto will be required by the Commission,”
Off the hook….
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